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Energy at Less than $0.01 per kW-hour: An Interview with Alex Xanthoulis

By James Burgess | Wed, 29 January 2014 22:56 | 10

It has been a couple of years since Andrea Rossi first showcased his E-Cat and introduced the world to the idea that LENR might actually be possible and could offer a viable, cheap, safe form of renewable energy for the future. Research has been fairly secretive but the end is near as some companies are finally getting ready to release their products to the public. One company leading the way is Defkalion, with its Hyperion Energy Source

In an exclusive interview with Alex Xanthoulis, the CEO of Defkalion, we discuss:

•    The stage that Hyperion is at and when it will be released to the public.
•    The most common application of the Hyperion Energy Source unit.
•    The role LENR will play in a renewable energy future compared to solar and wind power.
•    The planned method of sales for the Hyperion unit.
•    The cost of energy produced by the Hyperion Energy Source unit.
•    Any future plans for Defkalion.

Interview by James Burgess of Oilprice.com

James Burgess: For decades cold fusion, or low energy nuclear reactions (LENR), was considered impossible by most scientists. Do you think that with the emergence of Andrea Rossi’s E-Cat, and companies such as yourselves and Brillouin, the world has finally accepted the science of LENR, or do you still face stiff resistance when trying to create belief in your product?

Alex Xanthoulis: Yes there is still resistance in belief that LENR is real. However as yet it is still not a finished product and we are not a scientific organisation but private a business entity, once we get the product out into the market the SEEING IT IS BELEIVING IT.

James Burgess: At what stage is the Hyperion product at? When do you hope to release the product to the public?

Alex Xanthoulis: Based on our recent official announcement (as of the 16th January 2014) we will have a Pre- Industrial version out ready for certification by the second quarter of 2014.

James Burgess: Andrea Rossi, Brillouin, and yourselves are leading the LENR race. How much of an advantage do you believe the first party to make their product commercially available will have over the others in terms of securing market share?

Alex Xanthoulis: We are not in a position to actually know what level of development others may be at. All we can say is what we are able to do.

James Burgess: What are your plans for the Hyperion product? Will it be for large-scale purposes more suited to industrial facilities and office buildings, or will you provide small-scale units for installation in houses?

Alex Xanthoulis: When the Hyperion Energy Source units come off the assembly line the most common application will be household and light industrial. However as the R&D for other applications come on line then we will see a greater diversification of the usage.

James Burgess: You have recently been opening new bases around the world. Is this based on a supreme confidence in your product and the popularity that you expect, or are you expanding in order to meet interest and orders already made?

Alex Xanthoulis: As per our announcement on the 16th January, we are now developing the Pre-Industrial model.

James Burgess: I have read that you plan to first release the Hyperion into the Greek market. I understand that you are a Greek company, but would there not be more demand in a market such as the US or Asia? Or will you be using the Greek market as a testing ground to sort out any teething problems before entering much larger markets?

Alex Xanthoulis: Defkalion Green Technology is now a Canadian registered company. The plan is to establish the first OEM manufacturing facility in Greece, but as we have received strong interest to also do this in other countries the plan is subject to revision in the very near future.

James Burgess: Solar and wind power are the two alternative energy sources that receive the most attention as we try to shift our economy away from its dependence on fossil fuels. Do you think that LENR will be up there with solar and wind in its importance for a clean energy future? How far off do you think we are until LENR is capable of such a feat?

Alex Xanthoulis: Solar and wind as alternative energy sources are there and available solutions. However the long term solutions can not only depend on the weather and day light, but must be able to produce energy on a 24 hour 365 day non-stop operation. While at the same time it is Clean – Green – Safe -extremely low cost energy.

James Burgess: How will your Hyperion product be sold? Will Defkalion sell direct to the end user, or will the unit become available off the shelf in some select stores?

Alex Xanthoulis: Defkalion will License the OEM manufacturer to build and distribute the Hyperion in a given country and or market, through an authorised dealer network, that will provide sales and after sales support.

James Burgess: What was the reasoning behind the decision to move your headquarters from Greece to Vancouver?

Alex Xanthoulis: The decision to relocate was based on the rational of geo-political stability, and strong and sound Government assistance.

James Burgess: Other than the Hyperion what other projects are Defkalion focusing on at the moment?

Alex Xanthoulis: Defkalion is only focused on the development of the Hyperion Energy Source and in the possible applications that it can be used in.

James Burgess: What benefits will the Hyperion offer over other sources of energy generation?

Alex Xanthoulis: Clean – Green – Safe - extremely low cost energy. Operating on a 24 hour / 365 days basis.

James Burgess: What would the maintenance costs be for running a Hyperion unit?

Alex Xanthoulis: Depending on the application of once or twice year maintenance and recharging of the reactor, at a cost of between US $ 500 to $1,000 annually.

James Burgess: What is the expected lifespan of a Hyperion unit, and how much money do you calculate the unit would save compared to buying the equivalent energy from the grid?

Alex Xanthoulis: The life span is indefinite as long as the unit is maintained. The gain is calculated (including the annual maintenance fee) that the cost per kw per hour to be in the range of 10% of what ever the price equivalent is of the grid.

James Burgess: What exactly is the Hyperion and how does it work? How does it differ from other LENR machines in development?

Alex Xanthoulis: Defkalion’s Heat Energy Source Unit works on the Principal of H.E.N.I. (Heat Energy from Nuclei Interaction). Therefore it is completely different in its method of operation and control mechanisms.

James Burgess: What would be the cost of energy produced by the Hyperion unit? (in dollars per megawatt hour) with it being a new technology I assume improvements will be made to increase its efficiency. How low do you expect energy prices to drop, and in what time frame?

Alex Xanthoulis: The calculation for the cost per kw of energy produced by the Hyperion (using prevailing conditions) is calculated to be less that US $ 00.01 (or less that one cent).  

James Burgess: How much do you plan to sell the Hyperion unit for?

Alex Xanthoulis: Based on our current projections the Hyperion Heat Energy Source Unit (only) should retail at €5,500 or (depending on prevailing exchange rates) US$ 7,000.

James Burgess: Will engineers need to be specially trained to perform maintenance on Hyperion units? Could this lack of trained engineers be an obstacle to the widespread use of the Hyperion?

Alex Xanthoulis: Our business plan has addressed this in great detail. The training will be substantial, also each engineer will be equipped with the special tools and laptop necessary to perform this task.

James Burgess: How many orders for the Hyperion have you already received?

Alex Xanthoulis: We are not taking orders for anything as we will firstly obtain the certification for the industrial model, then the appointed OEM will contact his sales activities when the production allow it.

James Burgess: Once the Hyperion has been released onto the market what are your next goals?

Alex Xanthoulis: The constant development to optimise and downsize the unit on one hand and on the other new applications that can utilise this energy source to expand the horizons of the HENI technology.

Energy at Less than $0.01 per kW: An Interview with Alex Xanthoulis

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  • bob on January 30 2014 said:
    More talk, interviews, but never any evaluation by an authorized outside expert, nor any proof.
  • Guru on January 30 2014 said:
    Please may somebody tell to Mr. Xanthoulis, that "kilowatt" is not energy ?
  • I_M on January 30 2014 said:
    Title is misleading and technically incorrect - should be "Energy at Less than $0.01 per kW-hour".
    It's also unclear from this interview what's the power (in kW) of the unit Defkalion is planning to sell for
    €5,500 or US$ 7,000.
  • Diego Fucci on January 30 2014 said:
    Defkalion did a public demonstration on July 2013 in Milan, after that a lot of unanswered questions arose, many of them put in a dark light Defkalion seriousness.

    Luca Gaberale, CTO at Defkalion Europe in Milan, openly talked in a public interview about important issues in the measurements which needed to be addressed.
    Franco Cappiello, CEO at Defkalion Europe in Milan, publicly stated that on September 2013 he had to talk with Defkalion in order to clarify the problems, but until now no answer and no official communication has been released.

    Along with these issues, Defkalion made unbelievable and unverified claims like the production of a 1.6 Tesla magnetic field during Hyperion functioning that is something enormous and very hard to believe by anyone with a minimum of scientific background.

    I think that Xanthoulis must make an independent test (truly independent) on his reactors if he wants a minimum of credibility and he must do it before talking about costs, orders and maintenance of the units.
  • maryyugo on January 30 2014 said:
    How soon we forget what a bunch of bald face lies have come from Defkalion over the years.

    Remember March 2011? Stremmenos, then with Defkalion said:

    " [Defkalion] is investing €200 million. The company has secured all necessary permits both in terms of product safety and standard requirements for the creation of an industrial unit, the company has purchased an old factory which is already transformed into a new unit which will be energy independent using the same products. "

    That was early 2011. How much time do they need exactly and why?

    Over the years, Defkalion has distinguished themselves by:

    - closing and deleting their internet forum on which they had made extravagant and impossible claims and written arrogant, patronizing and insolent replies to serious questions

    - missed every deadline they set for themselves or if they say that isn't true:

    - where are the Greek authorities' safety and effectiveness certifications (promised June 2011)?

    - where are the dozens of reactors producing 10kW on a table top, tested continuously with no fresh fuel and having built in liquid flow calorimetry with silicon oil? (said to be working in their labs during mid 2011)

    - where are independent tests by seven of the world's largest and most important companies with open reporting of THEIR results? (promised April 2012 if memory serves)

    - where is evidence for an impossible huge gigantic 1.6 Tesla magnetic field as a result of reactor operation?

    - why did the company do a lame and insufficient "test" in their own lab -- the test which they showed at ICCF-18 -- in which they couldn't even be bothered to properly account for input and output energy? Why not a proper and independent test like what they had promised many times before?


    Why did Stremmenos eventually call the company liars? Why did a member of the Greek Parliament say to a reporter that no tests of Defkalion were ever done by any known agency and no equipment was submitted for testing while the company was claiming both events had happened?

    Why does Hadjichristos waste his time playing silly internet games with me (asking me to test but not following through when I gave him two expert and qualified names to contact)?

    Who knows?! For sure, these are not people to be trusted. But hey, let's see if they do anything of what they just promised.
  • Peter on January 30 2014 said:
    Very few people will pay US$7000 and then US$500-$1000 per year for a heater.
  • nemteck on January 30 2014 said:
    "Defkalion’s Heat Energy Source Unit works on the Principal of H.E.N.I. (Heat Energy from Nuclei Interaction)". This is typically in a chemical process.
    Nuclei interactions take place in suns and need high temperature and pressure. The fundamental principle in nature is to minimize the energy in any process. If H.E.N.I was possible then there would be suns that don't shine but radiate energy. This has not been observed.
  • Andrew on January 31 2014 said:
    LOTS of people would willingly pay that price for electricity and heat. Quite cheap as an off grid solution when measured against solar and wind installations.

    Now to see what they actually deliver on all fronts
  • AlainCo on January 31 2014 said:
    All that is said in this interview is old claim, even the price.
    Note that the price of a reactor is in fact per kW installed, and very few per kW.h produced...

    It is exact that Defkalion have produced no really independent test. The best test is a short test by Nelson, which revealed a modest COP, and which was only a draft... No following test was done to confirm and details.

    The demo (yes only a pony show) of ICCF18 was showing goodwill, but all of that is canceled by the decision of Luca Gamberale to freeze relation with his clients after he find problems with the measurement protocol.
    Many theory circulate, and unlike usual conspiracy those one are precise, and stable.
    I have been waiting for long for Defkalion to clear that question with Luca Gamberale, and nothing came except promises.
    Now I wait for Luca Gamberale to inform the community about his position.

    I'm used with conspiracy theory by Mary&al; (who always shout about the wolf) , but when an insider start to moan, at least you suspend your trust, and after some time (6month) you start to get concerned.

    LENR, and even Rossi are no more doubtful.
    Defkalion have shown some good behaviors, despite always being late, but with ICCF18 and Luca Gamberale story, and no real answer afterward, they have ruined their credibility.
    If the negative buzz is real, this will be a tragedy for the others serious LENR companies.

    For now, not answering Luca Gamberale questions is at least a sign of deep irresponsibility, and at worst a reason to be very much afraid.
    I can understand 2 month delay, 1 more for vacation, but 6 month is not responsible.

    About the magnetic field it seems hard to justify, but it may simply be an error of measurement. however not realizing it is an error is not a good sign...
    My own quick computation, knowing the shape of the reactor, and that the 1.6T were peak measured at 20cm, it was implying about 8T in the reactor, which is hard to swallow... LENR is new, and their process is new... why not, but need more data.

    Really the most problematic question, is those raised by Luca Gamberale, the European partner.
    When Mary moan, it is no information. When Luca moan, it is blackswan valuable information.
  • TVulgaris on February 17 2014 said:
    Given the trillions in value of the energy industry, it seems that someone already with a lot of money to leverage might position a startup in LENR to poison the well for enough years (in addition to most of the past 25 its' already experienced from the F & P witchhunt) to keep the gravy train of carbon pushing out the billions while we ride the thing off the precipice...

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